Hey Warren, intellectual dishonesty again??? Hey?

I figure Reagan was a PR pawn and as a professional actor he was good at reading and acting out a script. By inference one can trace how he was recruited, transformed from a Democrat, and groomed for the part. That he has become regarded as any sort of actual self actuated President, not to mention a "great" one, simply demonstrates the power of the PR industry that Freud's nephew, Eddie Bernays, put together in this nation during the last Century. Goebbels credited Bernays with being one of his inspirations and as being his propaganda role model. I urge anyone not familiar with Eddie Bernays to take the trouble to watch the four art BBC documentary,
http://www.thomhartmann.com/board/./viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3895&sid=9b4285bf03b8641944645f95e6a258da

Strangely you just ignore all his writing that he did including most of his speeches ever given was either by his hand {pen and ink} or was edited to fit his taste. Unlike TOTUS now, Reagan showed that he was a voracious reader as well as writer. You ever go to the Reagan Library? It is close to where I live and I would love to show you around including his hand written speeches.

Ultimately this passage only shows your disdain for his conservative views while ignoring the vast amount of PR that controlled Democrats in office including the worst president in our lifetime at least {Carter}...

Warren Huntsinger is an Asshole version 9569.

matt, science mostly just makes hypotheses and tests them. It's not that much about arriving at the certainty of knowing, especially out of the need to cover our deep and fragile uncertainties with that knowingness, though it's often misused with that in mind, as is religion. Science is mostly about how to openly question and explore. A conscious scientist is aware of that. I'm big on recognizing the validity of uncertainty and respecting another person's rights to their experience. Much of what goes on in our minds science simply can't test. Personally, I don't let anyone tell me what I think and feel about things, I don't give a shit what hokus pokus someone may come up with to try to convince me is their version of authority about me, I trust what I experience, even if my rational mind doesn't always make good sense of it, and I trust you are wise enough to do the same. That's the essence of being yourself, and of the dignity of personal responsibility.

Strange you have no problem telling others how they feel. And you certainly have given your version of "authority" to others. You simply can not live by your own standards you place on others so easily, especially to those you "disdain".

What I realized when I woke up was that I had to decide for myself to get out of bed, put on this uniform I'd been given (think of that word: "uni" and "form") and follow orders that may involve doing something that I personally find both morally and ethically against my own personal self will. Not my rational thought, but my will. My ability to freely say "yes" or "no" to an authoritarian order. Very simple place to go within: "yes" or "no." Most of us make the discovery of "yes" or "no" by the time we are two years of age. Then there's the beginning battle with authority about then. All sales jobs, all con jobs are aimed at that personal place. All hegemony is aimed at controlling that individual "yes" or "no," one way or another.

Considering you were a "con job", then it is interesting that you disparage salespeople in general. This does point out your underlying desire to control conversations and have absolute hegemonic power over any thread you were involved in. Being an intellectual bully is no way to live your life.

Since you could not "control" me, you had to continually make it personal. The ironic portion is that you accuse everyone else of your sins you manifest on a daily basis.

As we always stated, you truly lack the ability to see yourself in the mirror.

Idiot Ren, part 1005

I can recall bringing up Jane Jacobs even here and getting a knee jerk "Marxist" label immediately attached to her ideas. She's so far from that form of bureaucratic structured thought I can't even begin to imagine what brain deadness brings up that knee jerktion. Maybe it comes from the sense of leveled populist individuality embedded in her ideas of bottom up small business creativity that she envisioned as being the sparks that created the vibrant cities through time since the first we know of so far at Çatalhöyük, Turkey. As I see it, Marx focuses mostly the evolution of the labor side of the recently arisen industrial capitalist coin. He skips right past any effort at understanding the importance of individualism in the mix. No wonder he is often credited with being the formulative basis for modern day social "science."

Actually, I said Marxist/Leninist. Not communist like you first mistakenly said and not Marxist solely. So please pay attention but more importantly it was not even addressed to you. If it was it would have had your name or quote included. As you told me several times, if it does not include either in your post then it is not in reference to you.

Better yet, you can could have addressed the issues I brought up and either confirmed it or explained how it was different. I am sure you know about Marxism/Leninism to explain the similarities and differences with Jane Jacobs through the center/periphery analysis.

Just give it a rest, or answer the responses...
You even go on to explain some differences that do not matter to the issues I even brought up.

His root paradigm ideas don't appear to me to be in any way about innovation and personal freedom to think for oneself. They are about the results of an in place division of labor he and Engels found in what was a pinnacle example of it in their time (in the 1840s), in Manchester England, and how that "idea" they saw as both some sort of example of both the good and the horror of human societal evolution, will some day evolve into a classless communal perfection of some sort. In their own ways they were just as trapped in the patriarchal paradigm of hierachy as Adam Smith and the early thinkers who are credited with the budding attempts to understand principles of individuality in the Age of Enlightenment, which was, if you read their writing, for men, and for the elite thinking men. It took a lot of work from the always disenfranchised groups in these masterful systems, the laborers, the women, the non whites, to bring about any equality and protection of rights for them.

But like usual your experts as in this case Jane Jacobs are more important than what experts I quote and analyze. For example here is a conversation that would make Thom's look like trolls in a circle: Male bias in macro-economics???

Or a complementary conversations at: VLQD: Saving the World's Women

Many of us were going through that same route of deconstruction at just about that same time. Personally, I was fighting against NAFTA, GATT and other world globalizing nation state agreements. I had recently stopped working as a consultant writing strategic plans for businesses so they could become bigger, and more efficient. I was involved in helping to put together the research that would hopefully expose the dangers of international agreements that would overrule the efforts of nation states and areas within nation states to regulate the structural business agreements that involve the devastating effects to environments that businesses try to pass off as an expense the rest of the planet must absorb.

I have yet to see in 4 years any of this work. I have to wonder if it is just your wishful thinking. Of course you studiously ignored the benefits of transformations that even Jane Jacobs would recognize. Your Utopian views are more than likely contradictory.

To Dave:

Dave, not sure if you get these posts in your email like I do. But wanted to send you a small note.

If you have not found where ren's latest home is at: OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards

They do have the token conservative Jubal. Loganthor and me were banned. I was even banned for being myself and asking a few questions.LOL

Also he hangs out with all the leftovers from Thom's at where they get to complain and bitch:Unjust

Anyway, I have been getting a little inspired and even Jason suggested that Loganthor set up and or maintain a forum. Well: RDRutherford Forum

LOL. Take care, hope we get a chance to talk in the future, in the little we did talk on Thom's I learned quite a bit.

Man is ren one messed up Individual!

I am not going to collaborate all quotes to confirm all what he said but rens views are out there. Slab:

I could ask the same of you regarding karma points. It's universal love, ren.

This is sort of in the middle of a discussion about Karma points at Thom's forum for participants. Then rens response to that (my responses in bold):

Honestly, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to see those karma points climbing every day.
Yes, shocked enough to instigate the accumulation between him and Kate to conspire to raise it above others. He explained that it was so that new people would not be distracted to think certain people were the experts when they were not. So naturally he had to set up himself and Kate as the "experts".
I sent an email to Ericka suggesting she disable the damn thing, it's utterly ridiculous. It's intended meaning has already been tampered with, obviously.
Yes, tampered with the second ren and Kate got registered. What a moron.
Now let me offer you a little friendly advice.

Oh boy. You know what that means. Condescending attitude toward conservatives.

This is the fourth or fifth of your posts in a row focusing on me. Just notice that when you are trying to get into someone's else's head, you open the door to your own. Everything you do is reflective of something in your own mind. That's just a fact. So you open the door to your own mind when you try to get into someone else's. Empathic people have an advantage with that.

Hell, can't he just get over himself? Ren spends so much on other people's business but does not like when someone actually looks at his business. You would think he could someday follow his own advice. Oh, that's right an authoritarian that grew up with authoritarian parents "has to" behave and act that way in public. Well he has opened himself up for people to see in his mind also. All that talk about his mother and father.

Are you empathic? Somehow I doubt it. Shocking people is not a normal empath's characteristic.
LMAO! He is the one to judge. He was raised in a spaced out mother on drugs and has not a single brain cell of empathy and then accuses others of no empathy. What a jerk. Yes and let millions die from terrorism is empathy of others. Or living under totalitarian dictators is showing empathy toward others. Empathy is for only certain victims.
What gives me an advantage is I don't care much about what's in your mind, so I don't go after what's in it. Come at me all you want and you'll just hand me the map to yours. But you won't have my map. At that point it's like tai chi. I'll know all your moves. I don't really want to know, that's a fact. But I won't repress what I see.

And why all the psychoanalysis of conservatives? We have the map already and it is one messed up pile of cat xxxx.

Since you seem to have some fascination about this and you brought it up, I spent two years teaching Ronald the basics of mutual respect. He never seemed to grasp them.
I have more respect for others that ren can even grasp. But if he wants to live by a respect code, then he needs to show it. So far and even two years ago he has never shown any respect to me or any conservative except maybe Sawdust. Of course his idea of "teaching" is showing disrespect? He truly is a master of the Dale Carnegie classes. LOL.
I sincerely hope you already know about mutual respect. Mutual respect does not mean two people have to like each other. At the very, very basic level, if someone does not want to share, that is the border one doesn't intentionally cross. I realize abstract lines are difficult for some to "see" but I am hoping you have better "eyesight" than others around here have had.
More of his one way "respect". He wanted me to respect him with nothing in return. Hell I respect ren for a lot of things but being empathetic towards others or even trying to understand other points of view is not it.
I've lost interest in this type of personal exchange. This is not the topic I'm interested in. I hope you can appreciate that. This will be the only time I bring this up.
Again his bored (I'm so bored with you.) speech. You would think that he would understand that bringing up an issue and then showing disrespect and then saying "I'm bored with you!" is the epitome of disrespect.
This is an anarchic environment, for the most part, and I'm fully aware that whatever you do is up to you. That's where mutual respect comes in.
For ren that may be the case, but for others this type of post along with thousands of others shows his disrespect of others. Hell he even called other conservatives "it" like something below a living being. I guess that is what happens when a person is raised in one messed up family-they produce messed up individuals.

...

So it's going to be amateur hour with the twelve year olds, then. That's too bad, Slab. I actually had some respect for you.

Yeah, that shows a lot of respect. Anyway I will buy that along with a bridge.

Slab, if you ever read this, believe me he has no respect for you or me or Loganthor or any conservative with a brain.

I take it you're a fascist then?|An answer to ren...

In their minds, human beings dying are no more than bots in a Middle East strategy computer game.

Yes that sounds pretty much like taking sides.
But what if:

In their minds (Hezbollah), human beings dying are no more than bots in a Jews (Astroids) strategy computer game.

Hezbollah fires the rockets and missiles and then run and turn on the TV. If one of the hundred of rockets hits something then they get to see the carnage.
"Allahu Akbar...Allahu Akbar...Allahu Akbar!"

Ren's lack of ability to see his own actions.

Above is the most recent link to how Ren attacks people that he perceives as conservatives and especially on people new to the forum. Pedro's second post to Thom Hartmann's Board:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pedro:
Those numbers, if indeed accurate, are tragic and staggering. I have a bit of an issue with the fact that no distinction seems to be made between those killed by sectarian violence and so forth and those inadvertently killed by our military, but one aspect of the article sticks out to me.

The estimate given pre-invasion is 5.5 per 1000, but according to these numbers the global average currently is a little over 8.5 and the average in Iraq is around 5.3.

Something doesn't add up, and I guess it all depends on a person's perspective and what they want to believe.[/QUOTE]

And now how Ren responded without even an introduction or explanation as to what he is talking about:

Let's see, you invade a country, but beforehand, your cultural experts -- those in academia who make a life's work of understanding other cultures around the world, yes those experts, tell you all hell is going to break loose once you depose the government if you don't prepare for the multitude of tribal and religious sectarian "differences" that are held in check by an authoritarian government; you ignore them, in fact you basically spit on them, after all they are from academia and are by default liberals.

Some of your top military experts tell you that taking the government down will be the easy part, what comes next is going to need a lot of soldier power and extensive police level organization. So you can't have that, since your Secretary of Defense is pushing for a whole new Project for a New American Century military force to handle the upcoming geopolitical strategies for a new world order. So naturally you force those people out of their positions into early retirement.

Then, oh my gosh, here we are four years into this adventure, longer than the U.S. was in Europe during WWII and you find out, guess what?, they were right. And now you don't want to take any responsibility for the results of the sectarian violence? Are you sure you are a Democrat?

As far as those statistics. We now have an increasingly insular Unitary Executive Branch. It outspokenly admits it doesn't do a body counts of civilian deaths in Iraq. I'd have to question anything the now emasculated CIA posts as statistics -- esecially in Iraq.

So first Ren starts out with addressing Pedro as 'you' and places him in a position that he can not even respond since he is not a decision maker or someone in power.
And then proceeds to dump all his conspiracy theories on someone that has not had a chance to see where he is coming from. The concepts he expects a new person to respond to is: Authortarianism, Ren's admiration with meritocracy, teachings of PNAC, and the UET theories. This dialogue is obviously distracting to the thread and is violation of rule #2:

Altering Quotations: Do not alter the wording or make it appear as though another member had said something which they did not. Rules

He then goes on to question what a total stranger says is true:

Are you sure you are a Democrat?

And the use of statements with question marks to imply what the person’s position is:

Then, oh my gosh, here we are four years into this adventure, longer than the U.S. was in Europe during WWII and you find out, guess what?, they were right. And now you don't want to take any responsibility for the results of the sectarian violence?

And questioning a new persons ability:

Pedro, from East LA, and he already knows how to imbed url's in sentences in his second post. Not bad. And I like that little deceptive "Those numbers, if indeed accurate, are tragic and staggering." I knew another guy who started out his posts that way. He's been banned though.

Which he uses to imply that the new person is someone that was banned. And he does not even say who he thought it was, even after being asked directly.

And Pedro from East LA claims to be a Democrat.

Who watches Olbermann and O'Reilly "quite a bit"... "mainly to see how both cover the same stories."

And who has a bit of an issue...

The above was first to question his identity that he has willingly shared with other members, and then questions how someone can watch from news from a variety of sources and then tries to leave doubt about a members statements.

Once again, I don't have a clue to what you are trying to say. Would you like a link to a site that can give you some insight into malignant self love, narcissistic personality disorder, or some such? Might be helpful. Can't think of anything else at the moment. Ren: Posted 20 June 2006 16:45

This is a real good example of Ren trying to psychoanalyze me.
The attacking and stalking started on that thread here.

I know GG you want to change the subject. But the Republican hypocrites are a having melt down now and we want to watch. If you read this thread you will see the Bill, King and Ren had a discussion about the sociological meaning of this phenomena of child and women exploitation. "Driveby posts" like yours are meant to waste our time. Ron Rutherford did this all the time and I see the same pattern imitated here.

Bill, notice that same drop-in, driveby, diversion pattern as in Ren's thread "Lebanon/Israeli ceasefire and recovery"? Has GG decided to adopt Rutherford's tactic and pick up where he left off? I think Kate intutitively detected the Rutherford tactic first and left. Posted 01 October 2006 09:13

So he has to use my name three times to make a point or what? I never showed any anger toward Anti and I even offered to help him develope a theory and how to do some hypothesis testing on it. Can anyone say ad hom?

Ren at his finest hour...

ren:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sue N:

Is that anything like what you told your wife after you beat the crap out of her and she went to the cops and had you arrested? Or is it that you are addicted to S&M and are disappointed that you'll be losing some victims now?

Ren,

That sort of comment does not help. :([/QUOTE]

Sorry, I'll get rid of it. Just trying to dramatise the extremes I thought were implied.

Yes, violence is a constant theme in ren's mind. And for something completely different:

Supporters of Hezbollah

George Galloway: Hizbollah is right to fight Zionist terror
London's pro-fascist rally

1.Stormfront
2.Revolutionary Left

re: All my friends are former Republicans but I can not get along with any conservatives.

Ren: Just a side note on Obama, a friend of mine just died on the day of the Winter solstice, his father was a Republican senator here in the state of Washington years ago. He himself voted Republican all his life. He was planning to vote for Obama. And if you knew him, you'd know that's something. His reasoning was the guy seemed "genuine" when he watched him.

Strange how ren has so many friends that somehow change from being a Republican when he shows so little RESPECT for others with conservatives points of view. Makes us have to wonder about what his "truths" in life are.

I also have to wonder how a fathers political affiliation means anything about the sons. I have a relative that was so fed up with the Democrats recently that she decided to register as Independent. Anecdotal stories would never be accepted for proof from ren, wonder how he can step in his own shit and not recognize it.

Anyway that technique for determining a candidate is about as good as he seems like a person I could have a beer with. I am sure ren would question the logic of that if one of his friends used it to describe a conservative candidate.

But, I still love that ren lives in his own world...

Possible links for use about Ren.

Unitary Executive Theory
http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4061097651/m/7381065951?r=1081011061#1081011061

Your question does point out some interesting aspects of the neocon's current Ghenghis Khan strategy for controlling the government, and thus a structural problem in our government worth examining.

http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4061097651/m/7381065951/p/3
Not a smoking gun but you can see that he is trying to say that you are an embodiment of Ghangis Khan and a neocon by your type of question.

http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4061097651/m/7381065951?r=7441084061#7441084061
Part of Ren's psychol babble.

http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4061097651/m/7381065951?r=5691067061#5691067061

I don't think you know the difference between your ASSumption and your OpiION. A tautological imperative is not a logical answer to a problem, it is the recourse of a dictator and a bully. I offered you a logical problem, you returned with a simple, unexplained proclamation. That's a tautology at that point, nothing more, and nothing anyone need take seriously.
...

“Loganthor has recently introduced what amounts to a problem that one might call "expansio ad absurdum" where he took a simple concept and expanded it into a "monsters under the bed syndrome" that might occur with toddlers in a nursery school, not with adults who want to have a reasonable discussion about issues without some of the extremes that go with it; the result was what you called "amateur dramatics" with the other voices chiming in (or piling on) as well, like Rutherford and his faux apology comment to Andger.”

You have to give a man credit when he can not see his own shit...
I at least did apologize, I have yet to see any apology from ren for all his malicious attacks on others. He truly lives in his own world...

ren "expert"

Here is a site we should check out:
http://www.big-boards.com/kw/politics/

It has 44 political bullettin boards.

Most recently from Ren...

I promised myself I wouldn't look, and so far I've managed to keep my promise. I really don't wish to read another word written by said "expert" in psychology. Dead

Sorry, I never have claimed to be an expert in anything.
What do I know?
Unlike Ren that has to brag about his vast experience and knowledge.

Sunrise/Ren

Since you found his goat. Why not link some of those fine messages he had for you to the Hateful thread.... get a ruling from the Admins.

This is a suggestion from one of my friends. But I wanted to respond here in case anyone had any other suggestions.

I am not so concerned about showing his transgression as of now. If I did I would probably put it on my own blog. I doubt the admins would do anything about it anyway.
I still plan on visiting some of his issues raised on the Hateful thread. Shamus still acts like a clone of Ren. Most recently attacking simple words and phrases.

I also plan on posting a response to his bold comments post. And I should still be able to talk on "his" threads by responding to his attacks from the perspective of the board member that gets his attacks. Tricky but still doable. Maybe a little Deconstruction could come in handy.

Ren has also opened up an interesting door by stating:

I do not want you to address me again.

Seems like we can go around and state this phrase and thus no one can address me or even talk about the issues that I am concerned about. Sort of like the super shield.

Did anyone notice this:

Dont bother to read the interview below that Ronald has posted, its a hoax.
You idiot, Ronald.

So far I have about 10 times that sunrise has put his foot in his mouth with false statements/articles he parades around. And it is so ironic that he calls me an idiot. I am the one that just reposted his false articles. Yesterday I was doing some research for my More thread and came saw lots of links about how this article was false.

Ren...

Shit, I just saw 'Ren' on-line.
And no not the _Ren current form but Ren.
He may have figured out his password since Don (I believe Sawdust) lost his.

Ohhh, the victims at Thom's Board!

Ohhh, the victims at Thom's Board!

I think we have all seen the latest victimhood thread: Hateful or harrassing messages.
Especially all the talk about winners and losers.
Even Ren has to make some funny remarks:

Attitudes could change, Chris. It's not that different than getting negotiations going in the Middle East. I'm open to a trying for a less hostile environment. If an administrator or moderator takes an authoritarian position on this that excludes them from reciprocal respect with everyone, not recognizing the effect their own behavior can have if they don't, then you are right, it's not likely to work.

Yes to solve the ME problems we just need to have more negotiations.

Yes, ren again...

"Let us go down, and there confound the language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
A passage in Genesis from the story of The Tower of Babel.

I am sure Ren thinks I do that.

ren Part II

Part II of You meet all Kinds on the Internet. Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder
I finished my psychological analysis of Ren at Part II of You meet all Kinds on the Internet. Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Ren's latest quote:

I've said something like that maybe once, if that, and only in reference to something specific that would take too long for me to develop in this context. That's the response I was referring to.

Once again Ronald interferes with one of my conversations with another person on this board, and says unnecessary things that could be seen as an attempt to inflame a conversation between that person and myself. I don't pay attention to what he does with others, so I don't know if this is a pattern. I leave it to Seahawkfan, but I don't feel what I just said to him was meant to be combative or disagreeable. We actually had been having what I thought was an civil conversation, even though we appear far apart on this Middle East issue.

Where is Ren?

Where is Ren?
I am thinking that Shamus is the new Ren.
Before he left Ren said that when he came back he would not be as open as to where he lived. Also his signature states:
It’s always good to have the voice of authority
It speaks as if it knows
And everyone gets to shake in their boots
As the voice of authority crows
by shamus, the know nothing shaman from Preguntaville, in the land of Shame-on-us, and I am not here to hurt you.


And we all know that Ren was the man obsessed with authoritarianism.



As far as posting pictures on Thom's board:
It should be just right click on the picture/cartoon you want to post and select "copy image location". Then when posting on Thom's Board click on the picture (Second Icon from the right and paste where it says "Image Location" and press ok. I allways select "None" for "Image Location". Kate likes to mess with this, but I just like the picture to stand by itself.